I think we will end up like Japan is now. I was there in April and every family had 2 small, good gas mileage cars and they had one car that had absolutely horrible gas mileage. In my host family's case, they had an SL500 and 2 Daihatsu Panel Vans. The only people that had a bunch of "gas guzzlers" were very wealthy people that lived in Tokyo, because land is $2k per square inch. I saw very few cars in Tokyo that were worth less than $75k. There will always be a market for supercars, it will just become more of a niche market than it is right now.

Very interesting topic today.

First off, Matt, you have to let Leo argue his point of view a bit more. You're definitely to vicious out there :P.

Coming back on topic, i'll have to say, from what i can see, that it's the best AND worst of times.

The positive points are that performance cars of the past have become allot more attainable, allowing enthusiasts who enjoy driving and have been lusting over certain cars and their performance to finally get their fix.

The bad part is most definitely that cars from today are becoming allot more detached. Now, i know you guys have said it before, but i tend to blame the electronic aids on this.
I've owned several old cars and driven many new ones, but today i've noticed a stark contrast.
My primary piece of joy is my E36 M3 Evo which i had to drop of at the shop today. I received a loaner, a E90 318i with the M-Package. Now i know performance wise that there is no comparison, but i've been absolutely flabbergasted by the electronic crap (sorry, but i see it that way) which has been installed.
Give me normal indicators that CLICK and not some automated hunkajunk that you can barely hear and always have to check if it self canceled.
Also the 'assistances' you get are plainly annoying. I don't need somebody to assist me in letting the clutch out. I don't want you to make the turning of the wheel easy so i don't feel the road. I don't want you to choke the engine note so i can't hear and/or FEEL the RPMs.
These cars feel like sitting on a couch high on acid with the world flying by outside your window.

These things aren't only BMW related either. Renault Espace. Electric starter, electric e-brak, electric steering, electric toilet, electric wiper i mean COME ON!

The only real glimmer of hope to me right now is the US market.
This might sound kind of weird, but i think the US automakers have to potential, and do show it with the Z06 as well as Saleen and other cars, that they can make cars that are still barely minimum. Still incredibly fun to drive without any of the annoying gadgets.

Give me four wheels, an engine, transmission and get out.

I don't need your fancy penor enhancing aids making me feel like Michael Schumacher.

I'll put my money where Matt said it is best. Manufacturers like Lotus, Caterham, and yes, Chevrolet, are starting to see the benefits of simple, light weight without added sugar on top.

If things keep going this way, what the hell am i going to buy my kids? I'll probably douse myself in gas and light myself on fire before buying a hybrid or electric car...

Oh well, they always say that hope dies last...

I think this was a great topic. Best of times the new camaro makes 300hp w/v6. Technology is marching on. Our car mfg. need to intergrate us into the european models or them into ours, as fuel here now cost what europe has been paying. I think the mfg's who don't start thinking global market are doomed.
derail777

My vehicle...and all the juice I can carry...

A paradox for me, this golden age of 2008. So many fast cars, new and used to choose from. Now that I'm over 50 I can finally afford some of them. BUT too much traffic even late at night makes hi-speed runs down the 401 almost impossible. Garbage trucks with sleepy drivers, permanent left lane blockers and more radar leave me longing for the good old days of the late 70's and up to the late 80's. We had almost no traffic after midnight and early Sunday morning was awesome with virtually no trucks. Back then I had a 70 429 Torino Cobra, lots of fun but brutal handling and brakes, lots of breakdowns, etc. Same with 74 Corvette 454. Later with 5.7 GTA things got better, but not as good as my current 06 Hemi Charger, and 02 Audi A4 Quattro. They are already becoming obselete with the new stuff that keeps improving every 6 months! Great cars, nowhere to go, or maybe I'm too old and chickenpoop.

I think we are in the worst of times in the industry...but they will bring about the best of times

The industry is now forced to improve technology in order to lower fuel consumption and still make performance cars that people want. What will come out of this is inovative companies that are making cars that are better for the consumer and environment. And American companies are finnaly forced to make decent cars or die out....i love it

i think is both but at the same time i want to drive my only car with no compuetr and why cant they just make a V8 hyber that can get 600hp and at the sametime go 200+mph and get 30mpg highway and 40mpg cigt like that one car ur where talkin about on the show like comeone there is so much ways to make car go fast and get good mpg out just we have to find i just think people at ford chevy and nissan and honda and other car comping can find a way and i like trucks olny if was a v8 hyber so come we are goin to find a way u see

hey guys this isnt the worst or best time for cars in my opinion its exactly the same exept people drive less because of gas prices but anyway matt is right and that other guy is wrong car enthusiast will keep the speed alive

Matt Farah, please do some research. "Where do luxury trucks come from?" Back in the early 90's there was a "Luxury Tax" on any car over the then unreasonable amount of $30k (also boats, personal watercraft, etc.)

At the time, anything clasified as a "truck" was exempt as trucks were only a small percentage of the market. Someone then figured if a Silverado or F-150 was profitable, than a fully loaded station wagon on the same frame for top dollar would mean massive profit.

At the time, the average customer could go into a store, buy a Continental for $38k and pay a huge tax, or get an Explorer with every option for about $28k.

Also who is this Leo Parente, he's an "auto consultant" but what are his credentials? Does he do market research? Is he a journalist? Is he a used car salesman? Does he have any experience working for any car company?

there is no doubt in my mind that we r in the best of times of car. matt is definitly rigt we will always have a market for drivin cars. like a mustan and camero all the way to s7's an enzo's i think that now we r going to see a huge technological boom in the industry. there will b a ton of aveo and prius type cars out there. but hybrid tech will not go amiss in a supercar, musslecar, or a corvete type car. because of its huge benifits in accelration an milage. there are always gona b faster an faster cars out there. i personaly love my toys in cars like screens an watnot.

o ya i forgot. adjustability would be fantastic. like the diesl car that can change its milage. i well see more o that.

i think this is the best time to buy cars. reason is that the technology that is available both for the aftermarket and what you get from the dealerships. for instance direct fuel injection...you get the best of both worlds in gas efficiency and performance. more and more vehicle are coming out with this technology and other forms too. another one is the forced induction phase...there are more cars out there (at least where i live) that are turbocharged / supercharged and that again helps in efficiency and also performance (obviously). even though some manufacturers havent jumped on the bandwagon yet but wait a little sooner and they cars we know and love will have all this "formula 1" tech that'll make the cars we know and love to drive even better.

i think we need to give up the goverment isn't going to stop pushing this electric cars thing. but to see the world by 2020 driving hybird is a joke most people cant afford a good living non the less a $15k hybird. non the less one day there not going to be any gas car and when that day comes. horsepower well mean something else. but it doesnt mean that i wont push it intil it breaks. and who care about what the world well look like in 100 year ill be dead and you cant come back from that. so drive the fast and hard and die slow. love the show needs to be more then twice a week.

While we are not in the golden era of muscle cars any more, we are in a brave new time and i for one agree with Mat in that i am excited for what is coming and that this is a great time to be a car guy. i also think that the best is yet to come, while it may be different, it wont be horrible, and as a car guy i have to agree that i will ALLWAYS fight for my right to have a drivers car that will go 200+

So far we know oil is limited but in the world are so many big oilfields but no one uses them also the number of plants which change raw oil to gas are not enough. The industry invested not enough money in this business in the last decades. The amount of people who are able to drive a car increased but the industry didn't adapted their investments.
And there are alos the traders all over the world.
These 3 factors caused the high oil prices.

But I am of the opinion that fuel efficient sportscars are a must to develope. Look at the new M3. V8 power instead of a 6 cylinder engine and a heavier body... this is the wrong way to go. The car should be a 6cylinder or a 6 cylinder with turbocharger and a lighter body. The fuel efficiency would be much better the car would hadle better because it's lighter and you can drive longer with one full gastank!!!

But the problem is that develping a car begins 4 to 6 years before it's release and in this time the world continues turning. And now the industry looks for ways to adapt to this situation with higer fuel prices.So they will adapt also their sportscars to the new situation and so there will be sportscars as long as automobiles will exist.

Passion is passion. If big industry isn't going to build performance cars, the private sector will (probably under the guise of small business). Look at the SSC Aero project, which was largely funded by the owner of the company and private investors. Therein lies the future of the performance industry. Big business is and always has been controlled by government. Small companies that make less ripples in the economic pool can have there own agenda and make the cars they want.

There's too much faith put in the American people when it comes to the hope that they might resist changes/nanny states/Big Brother. The American people, in large part, are sheep. They don't fight the government in any significant amount. They might resist in limited pockets, but witness the Patriot Act. If it makes you "safer," it must be good, right?

So, to summarize my tinfoil hat views, I must say that these aren't necessarily the best of times, but it has not gotten to its worst yet. We're on that path as a society in the name of convenience and "safety." The American people are lazy, with a penchant for saying, "It doesn't affect me, so why should I complain or resist?" One should resist *because* it affects others, regardless of whether or not it's something you would utilize yourself. The American people's antipathy toward bucking the "system" affects everything, *including* the car industry, and always will. Can we change it? Probably not. Should we change it? Hell yes.

Great topic. I think though we have nothing to worry about.
Off course there going to be black boxes and driver aids and what not, you may see this already in new german flagships - they brake for you, they "actively cruise" braking and accelerating for you, they even beep when you crossing lanes. And lets not forget the great old GPS it tells us where to drive better. In a few years automakers probably just connect all the systems. And if it is installed on S Class, we all know we gonna see it in all mazdas and ford in a few years.
But there is another side of this story, not everybody going luxury, the industry is not about the big five, in last years dozens of new firms appeared like mushrooms after a rain, and they all about a driving experience.
There are always gonna be some 600-1000hp supercars (even if hybrids), there always gonna be some fiat 500 and minis, and off course lotus elises, ariel atoms, super sevens.

And yes! The internet community can change the way automakers think, and we will!

Typical ( catfish interview== all Mouth and NO brain) MATT interview has an expert guest on and won;t even listen way to go matt....ka...

The Black Box issue is something that is not tied to this debate; it is a BIG BROTHER debate. The only people who really want to see things like that are, big governments, who really are Corporate, Oligarchic, Elitists who want total power and maybe a few scared older people, who are merely scared into safety regulations without understanding or caring about their loss of freedom.

The key thing is…these things are allowed to slip into society, without consent at times. For instance, regulations and accident rates can trump the public’s voice in governmental debates and if lots of governments decide this is a good way for population control…good luck stopping it…especially if it backed by the corporate capitalists, i.e., IBM.

I personally will never buy On-Star for that very reason; I hate Big Government and Big Brother like things. If new cars have these sorts of things, I will buy an older one without it. If older cars are not allowed on the roads anymore and only computer controlled vehicles are…why buy a car, just take transit! If everyone like me, which is a lot of people revolt…I am sure the industry will think twice. (A mass civil war would not hurt either).

Is this the best of times, or the worst of times?

We are in the stage right when cars made their first jump in history. There was once a time where electric and steam powered cars were part of what seem to be automotive future. One of the most expensive and one of the better performing cars of the era was a steam powered car, so it was not like the technology simply could not compete (I believe Leno owns one of them). We all know what happened, one of the worst choices was made; the internal combustion engine was chosen. This was not really a bad thing back then. No one influential foresaw the problems with pollution and gas was considered to be plentiful back then.

Times have-a-changed, but due to economics and industry’s wheels in perpetual motion; change is unfortunately slower than we the people demand. We are demanding smarter and more efficient cars. It does not matter what technology will be the final outcome, it just has to be the best this time, not just something that can be mass produced by Henry Ford.

We all know the future (as of today) must be hydrogen or electricity. It cannot be gas; no matter how efficient we make them (gas is NOT infinite). It cannot be bio-fuels, look at what is happening to food prices and consumption. In the industrialized world that means more expensive foods, but in 3rd world or developing nations is means food shortages.

So here we are, is this the best or times or the worse of times? It is the worst of times if you look at it from a historical perspective. We could have had all this good stuff 100 years ago. But alas, there was no internet community and mass communication; therefore, the best was not always what societies got. If you look at it from an economic stand point, it definitely is one of the worst times in automotive history. From profit loss to being forced to fire 10’s of thousands of people, and moving to developing nations just to save a buck is proof economically speaking (some of this is good old Capitalist Greed too, but that is another debate).

BUT, if you look at it form a consumer and car enthusiast standpoint, we are in one of the best times. Companies are begging for sales, doing whatever it takes to move cars. What, you want 40mpg…and it must seat 5 comfortably…and do at least a 0-60 in 9-seconds…ok here it is! We are finally getting what we want as consumers want. The car industry was stagnate for about 40 years, just look at how computers and cell phones have changed. They have reduced their size, become more efficient and purely gotten better over the last 5 years. Why did we not DEMAND from all cars of the last 40 years? I know Ferrari buyers did…or people with over 100k to spend of their car.

I have seen more change within the automotive industry in the past 3 years than throughout my whole life and my parent’s lifetime. That truly is a testament towards the argument we are in the best times. Will be get a zero pollution electric car and will society finally use better power sources, such as, sun and wind mixed with what we have now; for a truly clean and self-sufficient life? So…electrical cars that have very little maintenance, are super cheap to run and produce, thus everyone saves in the end…including Mother Nature. Plus, car enthusiasts get more rpm and torque at demand, basically super car performance for dirt cheap? Or something else all together…nevertheless, the best time is now and that is why this could be the best of times.

I'm scared to death of the "Demolition Man/ I-robot" senerio. Look around you. How many people on your way to work do you think care about driving? I don't know why everyone can't have the cake an eat it too. Why do we NEED multi-talented cars? Have both. Have your tiny econobox that drives itself, but then have your GT-R spec-v parked next to it. I'll drive a completly electric no driver car 6 days a week, but leave some petrol there for me to ENJOY.

dont disconnect me from my car. and FIRE the NVH engineers!

I'M WITH MATT. i dont think drivers cars r going anywhere, i dont really care what they do just as long as i drive my car and 160mph is the minimum top speed. 4 cylinder with twinturbo or a blower or 6 with cylinder deactivation or even a V10 or V12 i could care less just as long as my car lets me do the driving. it goes fast and handles and sounds great while letting me do so, i'm good.

Matt, I think you are missing the bigger picture that Leo was trying to explain. While you are correct that there will always be a car community who loves performance, with increasing government regulations on labor laws, tax structures, and environmental issues combined with the benefits to an insurance company to monitor your all of your driving habits and maintain a driving history on you, will change the face of the auto industry and the behavior of the public at large. A similar fate in safety concerns, noise levels as well as public tolerance is happening in the general aviation community now.

Dunno if best or worst but I agree with Matt. There is always going to be go fast drivers. This is the meaning of life... The first thing all of us did is to win the zoid race. All generations to come (no pun intended) will still start with this race. We are borned racers. Joke a side I think we are in a transition period. Gaz is running out and we need something else to power our cars. The muscle cars of the future may run on water or electricty. Whatever it is we will still find ways to go faster.

So how about this? The market is going to eventually fracture but I think it will be localized to commuter routes and city streets. Out in the burbs nothing is going to change other than what extra vehicle we need to get us into the city via the commuter route.
High gas prices will never change my desire to accelerate faster than the other guy or girl, so I agree with Matt's stance on the "car enthusiast" but if you look at what Daimler is doing with hazard detection/avoidance and the Lexus auto-park capability, Leo, while taking it a bit far, is not completely off track here.

a car is a car and boyz will be boyz
anything can be done with a car and as long as there are four wheels and an engine we will find a way to make them go fast; whether its tearing out the "black box" forced induction... some new modifided supercharged battery or jus finding a way to make the car get up to 50,000 rpm no matter what the hell the gov tries we will find a way to get around it and the more they try to contol it the more were gonna wanna do it

Great topic Matt.

I basically agree with you: automotive passion will dictate future products.

However I think the automotive industry must adapt to current reality.

In the short term, the new 2.0 turbo Audi TT is great: 265hp/ 24 mpg.

In the future I will be glad to replace my 400hp gasoline Denali XL with a 4-cylinder turbo-diesel hybrid with the same torque.

With regard to big brother watching, I think that people will run from Orwellian spy technology and that will force auto companies to not over-reach on intrusive spy-tech. Its like EZ-pass model: If speeds are annonomous, people will use it. If not, people will abandon it.

of-course its the best of times....ya GM is all about hybrids and diesels BUT car enthusiasts aren't going to buy a car for them from GM or Dodge, their going to go for ferrari or lamboghini and those companies have just set the fasted track times in the 1940 and 50 ferrari couldnt even make a clutch. look where they are now. the technology thats making hybrids for pedestrian cars is the same technology thats making Zonda Fs go around the in 7 minutes this is an amazing time Nurbergring for cars

i think it can be the best and the worst time....... just as long as they make cars simple where you are able to drive the car and feel it and not let the car drive itself while you take a 30 min nap..... and still be able to go 200+ mph with 600+ hp then i will be happy...
but if they stop makin cars like that which i dought very much i guess i will just have to build a car from scratch just to be satisfied.....

Very interesting

The new fiat 500, the mini, and the loads of Kei/Micro cars in Japan all get great gas milege. But all of the companies that make these cars have also proven that they can build some serious performance cars.

The auto hobby is based on performance, everytime someone comes out with something new and innovative for racing, it slowly gets worked into the "common" cars that these companies produce.

The only way the car hobby will die, is if people arn't interested anymore.