If this debate is talking about the more modern duel-clutch semi-automatics, than we have a debate. If we are debating old school automatics, well manuals should have the debate won hands down. Old automatics lose horse power and do not allow for any sort of rpm control. They really are only good for regular daily commuters looking for luxury and the ability to cruise…or if you happen to have a turbo-400 olds with 1000hp they are ok too!
The newer CTV’s, yes are a little more fuel efficient due to their mapping with direct-inject engines, but a good driver paying attention to their shifts in a modern manual car can come very close to a CTV. In a “true” automatic vs. manual, I think it is hands down manual ftw!
If we compare transmissions like the SMG, DSG and all the other new variants to full manuals, we can actually have a strong debate. The average Joe can race a DSG that blips a down shift for you like a racing pro. It also allows for the driver to worry about one less thing in the car and at high speeds that is a good thing. So, let’s take all those ssequential F1 cars and put full manuals in 50% of them. Then with no other performance changes, race them…who wants to bet on the manuals…anyone…is that crickets I hear?
Full manuals might have their benefits in small circumstances, but in comparison to the overall benefits of sequential semi-automatics they are minor and only for a small amount of people. I personally want my next car to have a sequential gear-box; I am so through with clutching. I never really liked it to begin with, but heck up until recently there was no other option.
3 pedals for me please... A regular old manny tranny still wins hands down in my book. Simple, reliable, best economy, etc. There are no electronics, unless you consider a reverse light switch such. A clutch will last easily over 100k miles, provided you actually know how to engage one properly and aren't sidestepping it at 6k rpm's every take off.
I rented a new V-Dub Rabbit with the DSG trans. recently. I will admit, I had fun driving it around for the week I had it. I would pick DSG hands down over a torque converter-ed auto. Crisp shifts and right now power. Unforetunately, what happens down the road, when it needs repair?
I will stick to stomping my left foot down and rowing an old school, til the gear shifter is pried from my cold fingers.
A bracket racer will tell you an automatic is better because it is more consistent. I prefer a manual (although I drive a slushbox) for the ability to choose gears and it doesn't steal any power from your motor.
In the end, SMG beats both any day. Hopefully we'll see them in more cars in the near future.
I don't know if it's 97 percent the last time looked Matt, I believe it was last at least 90 percent though. I happen to drive a DSG GTI and love it, I do regret never learning the 3 pedal shuffle though, but I am quite an experimenter and wasn't much of a good investment (I was going to annihilate at least one clutch). But to come back with something good like the DSG system paired with the turbo 2.0 Audi engine (Which will eventually get chipped being that it is bullet proof) which is so torque'y it is incredible.
Manual all the way. All true performance cars come with a manual. Conversely, all true non performance cars come with an automatic. For me- I need a clutch and a shifter. It's more fun to drive, I feel I have more control over the vehicle and, of course, there's the horsepower and efficiency advantages as well.
My wife has a GS400 and it has the push button shifting on the steering wheel. I don't care for it. It doesn't offer me any real control over the car, so I just leave it in full automatic mode.
I do enjoy the sequential shifting on my R1 (I think it would be difficult to drive without) but I don't see the advantage of it in a street driven car. It's nice to skip a gear if desired, or more importantly, when desired. At least with my bike, I can't just shift through the gears at a dead stop without risking damage internally. It's designed to be shifted while in motion.
I'm going to watch NiteFite instead of Garage 419, cause they always advertise it and I wanted to watch Garage 419, but they keep ramming NiteFite down my MONITOR!!!
unfortunately that's just not possible given what's involved to produce an episode of 419. we will be doing daily videos from Pebble Beach starting this Friday.
MattF, MattF,...After watching NiteFite I won't be changing,....Nooo Wayyy!!! It's Shit! No seriously, it's pretty lame. I'm impressed by your show and take back the comment of" I'll watch Nitefite instead of Garage 419". I'm from Adelaide,Australia and you have one serious show! I'd like to see your show go main stream. Like an American version of "Top Gear"(UK show)we get here.Your show and "Fast Lane Daily" together would be unstoppable.
p.s. Buy the way,... I own a Mitsubishi 1993 GTO TT AWD, what's your thoughts on this car???
Sorry NNN, but Im not into this NiteFite show. Id prefer to hear you G419/FLD guys talk seriously about topics; I actually learn new things or gain additional perspective on things.
DD is hilarious in that promo.
Speaking of stick vs. manual...the FJ Cruiser is cool cause its a fairly serious offroading SUV which is offered with a manual. Ive mentioned this before, I know. Wranglers with manuals are cool, too.
Im prone to like both of them. While manual transmisson you can select the shift points. Even use it to slow a car down for an upcoming turn. Automatics are great for drag racing because of no missed shifts or poor starts. I'd really like to see a road couse racers drive an auto vs stick driven car and see who come out on top.
I've always said and will always say that if it doesn't have a 3rd paddle its not for me, all those semi autos have one thing in common.... no third paddle and therefore in my eyes they count as automatics even if their 3/10's of a second faster that a regular manual. also there are only a hand full of auto manufactures that do the semi-auto thing perfectly anyways and even still I'll rather have a real stick any day automatics r for old ppl and females that cant drive so unless u cant drive or have a vagina u should have no business driving an automatic even if it "semi-auto"
So, F1 drivers are all pussies...what about top fuel cars...F1 drivers cannot drive?
A clutch was the way to go in regular sports cars of the past; because there were no other options. Now we have what all the big guns use and even ford is working on one for the future. Seriously, what is pussy about not using a clutch? I do not get that mentality, it seems childish to say something like that. I drive a clutch everyday and there is nothing manly or superhuman about pushing my left foot down on a clutch.
dude u do know that F1 cars have clutches, yes they use a sequential gear box with paddle shifters but when they take off in first there's a third paddle involved. the reason y i dont like automatics is cuz they make the driving experience oversimplified hence y any 12 year old feels like he or she can take his moms car out for a joy ride when no ones home. i say automatics r for pussies cuz any child that can reach the paddles can do it, u put the car in D and its moving u dont even have to step on the gas, how much skill and/or technic is necessary to do that???? then ppl wonder y america has one of the highest rates of accidents in the world. 4 years ago while in high skool i took a poll of all the kids that drive in my skool and have been in any sort of accident. turned out, not to my surprise, that not some, not most but all the kids that drove automatics had been in some sort of fender bender since they started driving, from hitting parked cars to totaling and everything in between. however out of the hand full of stick shift drivers we had {30 or so kids} there were only 5 kids that had been in minor scraps, i know thats not a definitive test but i'm pretty sure if we took a similar poll across the united states we'd arrive at very similar results. i say stick shift is better cuz u learn better car control, u learn how a car truly operates instead of basic controls. any true car guy that can't drive a stick doesn't really know how to drive, and i highly doubt there is a professional race car driver out there that drives an automatic that didn't use to drive stick.
F@*kin Jersey Cruiser...I still love that!
If this debate is talking about the more modern duel-clutch semi-automatics, than we have a debate. If we are debating old school automatics, well manuals should have the debate won hands down. Old automatics lose horse power and do not allow for any sort of rpm control. They really are only good for regular daily commuters looking for luxury and the ability to cruise…or if you happen to have a turbo-400 olds with 1000hp they are ok too!
The newer CTV’s, yes are a little more fuel efficient due to their mapping with direct-inject engines, but a good driver paying attention to their shifts in a modern manual car can come very close to a CTV. In a “true” automatic vs. manual, I think it is hands down manual ftw!
If we compare transmissions like the SMG, DSG and all the other new variants to full manuals, we can actually have a strong debate. The average Joe can race a DSG that blips a down shift for you like a racing pro. It also allows for the driver to worry about one less thing in the car and at high speeds that is a good thing. So, let’s take all those ssequential F1 cars and put full manuals in 50% of them. Then with no other performance changes, race them…who wants to bet on the manuals…anyone…is that crickets I hear?
Full manuals might have their benefits in small circumstances, but in comparison to the overall benefits of sequential semi-automatics they are minor and only for a small amount of people. I personally want my next car to have a sequential gear-box; I am so through with clutching. I never really liked it to begin with, but heck up until recently there was no other option.
3 pedals for me please... A regular old manny tranny still wins hands down in my book. Simple, reliable, best economy, etc. There are no electronics, unless you consider a reverse light switch such. A clutch will last easily over 100k miles, provided you actually know how to engage one properly and aren't sidestepping it at 6k rpm's every take off.
I rented a new V-Dub Rabbit with the DSG trans. recently. I will admit, I had fun driving it around for the week I had it. I would pick DSG hands down over a torque converter-ed auto. Crisp shifts and right now power. Unforetunately, what happens down the road, when it needs repair?
I will stick to stomping my left foot down and rowing an old school, til the gear shifter is pried from my cold fingers.
A bracket racer will tell you an automatic is better because it is more consistent. I prefer a manual (although I drive a slushbox) for the ability to choose gears and it doesn't steal any power from your motor.
In the end, SMG beats both any day. Hopefully we'll see them in more cars in the near future.
it looks like it's going that way. right now 97% of Ferrari's are sold with F1.
I don't know if it's 97 percent the last time looked Matt, I believe it was last at least 90 percent though. I happen to drive a DSG GTI and love it, I do regret never learning the 3 pedal shuffle though, but I am quite an experimenter and wasn't much of a good investment (I was going to annihilate at least one clutch). But to come back with something good like the DSG system paired with the turbo 2.0 Audi engine (Which will eventually get chipped being that it is bullet proof) which is so torque'y it is incredible.
for 2008 it was 97%, i looked it up
Manual all the way. All true performance cars come with a manual. Conversely, all true non performance cars come with an automatic. For me- I need a clutch and a shifter. It's more fun to drive, I feel I have more control over the vehicle and, of course, there's the horsepower and efficiency advantages as well.
My wife has a GS400 and it has the push button shifting on the steering wheel. I don't care for it. It doesn't offer me any real control over the car, so I just leave it in full automatic mode.
I do enjoy the sequential shifting on my R1 (I think it would be difficult to drive without) but I don't see the advantage of it in a street driven car. It's nice to skip a gear if desired, or more importantly, when desired. At least with my bike, I can't just shift through the gears at a dead stop without risking damage internally. It's designed to be shifted while in motion.
Just my 2 cents...
I'm going to watch NiteFite instead of Garage 419, cause they always advertise it and I wanted to watch Garage 419, but they keep ramming NiteFite down my MONITOR!!!
Please, please give me NEW CONTENT every day. Fast Lane Daily does!
unfortunately that's just not possible given what's involved to produce an episode of 419. we will be doing daily videos from Pebble Beach starting this Friday.
MattF, MattF,...After watching NiteFite I won't be changing,....Nooo Wayyy!!! It's Shit! No seriously, it's pretty lame. I'm impressed by your show and take back the comment of" I'll watch Nitefite instead of Garage 419". I'm from Adelaide,Australia and you have one serious show! I'd like to see your show go main stream. Like an American version of "Top Gear"(UK show)we get here.Your show and "Fast Lane Daily" together would be unstoppable.
p.s. Buy the way,... I own a Mitsubishi 1993 GTO TT AWD, what's your thoughts on this car???
mitsubishi GTO? is that the australian version of our Eclipse? if so, the TT AWD is the best version of that car, and with tons of modding potential.
Sorry NNN, but Im not into this NiteFite show. Id prefer to hear you G419/FLD guys talk seriously about topics; I actually learn new things or gain additional perspective on things.
DD is hilarious in that promo.
Speaking of stick vs. manual...the FJ Cruiser is cool cause its a fairly serious offroading SUV which is offered with a manual. Ive mentioned this before, I know. Wranglers with manuals are cool, too.
Im prone to like both of them. While manual transmisson you can select the shift points. Even use it to slow a car down for an upcoming turn. Automatics are great for drag racing because of no missed shifts or poor starts. I'd really like to see a road couse racers drive an auto vs stick driven car and see who come out on top.
Almost forgot, DD's promo of The Toyota FJ Cruiser (F**** Jersy cruzer) is hilarous, i can see why they make fun of him and his Cobalt SS.
I've always said and will always say that if it doesn't have a 3rd paddle its not for me, all those semi autos have one thing in common.... no third paddle and therefore in my eyes they count as automatics even if their 3/10's of a second faster that a regular manual. also there are only a hand full of auto manufactures that do the semi-auto thing perfectly anyways and even still I'll rather have a real stick any day automatics r for old ppl and females that cant drive so unless u cant drive or have a vagina u should have no business driving an automatic even if it "semi-auto"
So, F1 drivers are all pussies...what about top fuel cars...F1 drivers cannot drive?
A clutch was the way to go in regular sports cars of the past; because there were no other options. Now we have what all the big guns use and even ford is working on one for the future. Seriously, what is pussy about not using a clutch? I do not get that mentality, it seems childish to say something like that. I drive a clutch everyday and there is nothing manly or superhuman about pushing my left foot down on a clutch.
dude u do know that F1 cars have clutches, yes they use a sequential gear box with paddle shifters but when they take off in first there's a third paddle involved. the reason y i dont like automatics is cuz they make the driving experience oversimplified hence y any 12 year old feels like he or she can take his moms car out for a joy ride when no ones home. i say automatics r for pussies cuz any child that can reach the paddles can do it, u put the car in D and its moving u dont even have to step on the gas, how much skill and/or technic is necessary to do that???? then ppl wonder y america has one of the highest rates of accidents in the world. 4 years ago while in high skool i took a poll of all the kids that drive in my skool and have been in any sort of accident. turned out, not to my surprise, that not some, not most but all the kids that drove automatics had been in some sort of fender bender since they started driving, from hitting parked cars to totaling and everything in between. however out of the hand full of stick shift drivers we had {30 or so kids} there were only 5 kids that had been in minor scraps, i know thats not a definitive test but i'm pretty sure if we took a similar poll across the united states we'd arrive at very similar results. i say stick shift is better cuz u learn better car control, u learn how a car truly operates instead of basic controls. any true car guy that can't drive a stick doesn't really know how to drive, and i highly doubt there is a professional race car driver out there that drives an automatic that didn't use to drive stick.